21. Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab) :
How many redundant churches have been converted to other uses in each of the last three years.
Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart Bell):
Thirteen in 2001, 28 in 2002 and 30 in 2003.
Mr. Prentice: These are significant figures. It is always sad when churches close because the congregations go away and disperse, but are there any inappropriate uses to which those redundant churches will not be put? Can my hon. Friend give me some examples?
Sir Stuart Bell: That is a double negative. First, the use of redundant churches must be by another Christian body or for wider community purposes that are generally regarded as most suitable. In terms of the second negative, the commissioners usually impose covenants on the new owner of a redundant church, restricting its use to that approved under statute and prohibiting any unauthorised architectural or structural alterations, demolition and the disturbance of human remains.
David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op) : What assessment the commissioners have made of the funding implications of a General Synod vote to allow women bishops; and if he will make a statement. [201750]
Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart Bell): None. By way of a statement, the General Synod has yet to decide whether in principle it wants to embark on the legislative process that would be necessary to enable women to be bishops.
David Taylor: It is very appropriate for the Church, in this season of Advent, to prepare for the arrival of female bishops, and it is proper and reasonable to provide for those who cannot accept the ministry of women in the episcopate. But in addition to its theological and practical flaws, would not the proposal for a new, third province parallel to Canterbury and York cause serious financial damage to the Anglican Church at every level—from the lowest and humblest parochial church council, such as that on which I serve, to the most elevated of bodies, such as the Church Commissioners, on which my hon. Friend serves?
Sir Stuart Bell: The question of a third province would doubtless appeal to the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant), who is in his place. The General Synod will be asked at its February meeting to take note of the report, and in principle, the decision as to whether it wishes to remove the legal obstacles to women's ministry in the episcopate will come later in the session. The wider point that my hon. Friend makes will of course be taken fully into account.
Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): But does the hon. Gentleman not agree that the Church of England should have learned its lesson about separate arrangements for those who disagree with the general opinion of Synod, and that it would be very helpful if, in the interest of the good governance of the Church, the commissioners undertook a survey of the options mentioned by the Bishop of Rochester in his recent report? That survey will hopefully show that people will not be forced to come to a particular conclusion that is based on money, rather than on the very good sense that the Synod will demonstrate when it agrees to women bishops.
Sir Stuart Bell: I take note of the hon. Gentleman's point, which reminds me of a comment that you will be very familiar with, Mr. Speaker. I have no instructions to give other than this House directeth me, although in this case it is question of how the Church of England directeth me. On the financial implications, the Church is giving the Bishop of Rochester's report serious consideration and the archbishops have commended it for prayerful study. There is a very long synodical process through which we shall reach the question of women bishops, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman's point, along with the other points raised, will be taken fully into account when Synod meets in February.
Mr. Ben Chapman (Wirral, South) (Lab): What recent assessment the commissioners have made of the work of the Department of Trade and Industry working group looking at terms of employment for members of the clergy.
Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart Bell): No concrete proposals have emerged from the DTI working group's meetings to date.
Mr. Chapman: Does my hon. Friend think that satisfactory? I recognise that the wheels turn exceedingly slowly in respect of Church matters, but can he indicate whether any progress has been made, what direction the working group is taking, and when we might expect some form of announcement?
Sir Stuart Bell: The thrust of my hon. Friend's question is a matter for the DTI, since it is up to its working group to introduce concrete proposals. The working group's discussions concerning the service review have been reported back to the clergy, and a report on the second phase of its work will be submitted to the Archbishops Council later this month.
I would submit that, at the end of the day, we may reach the conclusion that my hon. Friend wishes.
27. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con) : If he will make a statement on the consultation procedures for Church appointments.
Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart Bell): Different procedures are used for different appointments. In all cases, consultation is extensive whether it be for the appointment of diocesan bishops, other senior clerical appointments or parish appointments.
Miss McIntosh: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. Will he join me and, I hope, the whole House in paying fulsome tribute to the present Archbishop of York and wish him God speed in his new parochial duties when he steps down from his current position? Will the hon. Gentleman assure the House that the consultation to which he just referred will be as wide as possible in respect of the succeeding Archbishop of York? Will he have regard to the turmoil in the Church of England, to which the archbishop referred, and ensure that both wings of the Church—the traditional and the modern—are represented?
Sir Stuart Bell:
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for mentioning the
retirement of the Archbishop of York, who will take up his position as a parish
priest on 15 January. I am sure that all hon. Members will wish him God speed in
his new role and will welcome and appreciate the work that he has done up to now
on behalf of the Church. We all read with great interest his interview,
published in The Sunday Telegraph yesterday.
As to the consultation process, I doubt whether there has ever been one as wide
and far-reaching as the present one. It includes the hon. Lady herself, who was
asked to give her views, as have others within the Church. As a result of the
extensive consultation period, I am sure that, when it comes, the appointment
will represent the widest interests of the Church.